Creating an actual economy for Musicoin

Hi all,

to be honest, I've just discovered Musicoin today and I haven't yet fully understood how the economy of tokens works.

Right now I understand the following:

  • listener can listen to music for free
  • miners mine coins and a fee goes to Musicoin
  • this fee goes into the UBI pool (and also pays for server maintenance etc, I guess)
  • UBI is used to pay artists according to amount of plays

But what happens with the tokens that accumulate at the miners?

My understanding is that this just keeps accumulating - right?

My idea: Yes, right now the system is ad-free but why not replicate Spotifys business model of freemium to get the coins circulating?

  • every user gets tokens for watching or listening to ads
  • every play of a song deducts tokens from the user
  • advertisers buy tokens (from miners, users or artists who have accumalated tokens)
  • advertisers create advertising smart contracts with a budget of tokens

That would ultimately incentivize miners to sell their tokens and lead to higher payouts on the artists side assuming UBI isn't capable of paying everyone properly "at scale", because in the end it's just that: universal BASIC income.

Would be happy to hear your thoughts on this, or generally what the plan is to create a real token economy in Musicoin.

Thanks!

Best
Malmaladei

Solid post, interesting concept. People are definitely (in general) more comfortable having their digital content interrupted by an ad than they are having to set up an account to start buying cryptocurrency and then setting up another account on an exchange to trade said cryptocurrency for $MUSIC and then use that to tip artists etc...

But yeah, food for thought!

@malmaladei so...my first unfiltered thought on this is:

I like your approach of trying to make the money rotate. But personally I would not want something like "earn coins by staring at/listening to ads to be able to pay for the music". Because this is literally placing advertising on the back and on costs of the musicians. And in fact - if somebody can earn coins for clicking on ads, he probably doesn't want to spend them rightaway. So it's going to turn into an advertising show, instead of a musicstreaming show.

Sure...put ads in here, if it helps to get the system and the website funded (if it isn't already), and sure, reward people for clicking on those ads. But don't put something in between the listener and the musician that doesn't have to be there.

In order to get the money rolling, I'd rather see implementation of marketplace-ish structures - I mentioned that in another thread. This can also be done for listeners. Want a shirt of your favorite band or something fancy like the vinyl edition of their latest LP? Buy it here for coins - directly from the musicians storefront.

EDIT: Here is the link to the thread I mentioned: https://forum.musicoin.org/topic/80/marketplace-for-musicians

PS: I think, however, there must be something in place for average listeners to earn coins too. The leaderboard idea + quests could be a solution for this. In combination with a marketplace (with musicians selling physical goods to listeners, retailers selling manufacturing and equipment to musicians), this could actually turn the site into something really amazing: https://forum.musicoin.org/topic/107/social-listener-leaderboard-by-system-of-quest

last edited by Neon Insect

@neon-insect Love the idea of being able to sell merchandising from the platform, that's an excellent idea. I thought listeners earn coins by commenting and liking I'm not sure though. Certainly doesn't say anything anywhere about it.

@iced-note-music Right now it is just streaming and UBI pays for it. The only chance for listeners to obtain coins is through comments and getting likes for it - since likes are a transaction of appreciation of 1 coin - If I'm not mistaken. There is pretty much no reason for the average listener to join this community right now, since it is lacking features on that end of the chain. But I'm certain this will change when playlists or some sort of keeping a shortcut to great music in a profile.

Hi all,

thanks for the comments.

However, I want to point out one more thing: the average Spotify freemium user - meaning 60-70% of all platform users - will not start buying some intermediary token with their hard earned fiat just to tip an artist when they can listen to the artist for free as well.

You gotta be a really big fan of an artist to take that hurdle.

Then, on the other side, I doubt that UBI will be capable of paying every artist. Additionally, it punishes small artists when every artist is paid according to the amount of plays IN RELATION TO all the other artists on the platform.

Plus, for miners there's no or only a very small market, assuming that 60-70% (in the beginning probably more) users will not pay for coins.

I understand that most people don't like ads and those people could still buy a "premium-like", ad-free experience. But you have got to find a way to monetize the "free" users. There's a reason why Soundcloud is on the brink of bankruptcy and Spotify is not.

Best,
Malmaladei

@malmaladei

Spotify is actually losing money yearly: https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7833686/spotify-2016-losses-financial-results-revenue

and now they are facing a sued for rights which could cost millions: https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3023691/spotify-is-being-sued-for-usd16bn-over-unlicensed-songs

They are trying to go IPO 2018, something that shows how cuestionable a business model that you are describing is.

@malmaladei

The reason why spotify > soundcloud are many. Primarely because soundcloud tried to be something, that they weren't, while forgetting to develop a payment model per stream for indie artists (which musicoin does)...a topic i could ramble for hours about...soundcloud is not only unattractive for the listener, it is also not attractive for the artist.

Right now nobody has to take the hurdle. It will - however - be interesting, as soon as some sort of marketpalce is going to be established. There are plenty of ideas on how to get the ball rolling on this, here are a few:

https://forum.musicoin.org/topic/5/playlists-private-streams << ability for listeners to earn coins for playlist curation

https://forum.musicoin.org/topic/107/social-listener-leaderboard-by-system-of-quest << Quests for listening to music with coin reward

https://forum.musicoin.org/topic/80/marketplace-for-musicians < < marketplace, selling merchandising, tickets, 2nd hand studio stuff, buying from instrument/equipment manufacturers/retailers etc. pp.

https://forum.musicoin.org/topic/44/buy-download-own-music << being able to own and download music, includes also a cap per track/listener.

And on top of that: Direct ability to buy musicoin was requested somewhere.

So the more functions are offered, the more the page is going to be attractive for people to invest some money to get involved.

This is all based on direct interections. Like I said previously: If some advertisment banners are there on the website...that is fine, if that helps the site, but adverstising on the back of the musician sucks. Like "you have to listen to advert to earn a coin to be able to listen to music" this is just a bad idea for this. This is not spotify.


I don't see why that is "punishing" small artists, if the artist gets paid the amount of plays. . Getting paid per play is exactly that: Fair. What you try to highlight with "IN RELATION TO" is not really clear to me.

What would not be fair is, to put advertising on the back of small artists (if you still stand by this idea). Because then the listener - if he even would listen and not horde the coins - would spend his coin on the known artist and not the small (people won't discover stuff, if they have to spend something for it). And what would be even less fair is to put everything inbetween the small artist and being discovered, like soundcloud and spotify do.

So if you don't do a platform like spotify, you don't need to mimic spotify. Freemium/Premium sucks.

tl,dr: Even though Spotify is successful for many reasons, half of the stuff going on on spotify is bollocks and I'd love to see only the good stuff from them on this platform. Advertising is none of them. But rather emphasize on true value to get here for the listeners. Aka. Merch, Tickets, etc.

last edited by Neon Insect

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